IE 7

[swolt]

I just installed IE7 Beta 2.

so far I hate it. They made it look way too much like FireFox.

[SockmonkeyHolocaust]

We have to go back and redo a ton of scripting on our websites to remove the "object imbed" function so that our Flash can be used.

[ReBurn]

Looking at some of the API docs, it's quite a bit different.  I haven't messed with it, though.

[swolt]

I uninstalled it. It sucks hardcore.

[ReBurn]

It's still beta, though.  The I'm guessing the full release won't ship until Vista.

[Mr. Ubiquity]

you sound surprised that a beta sucks.... its microsoft..


they take whats there, change a couple lines of code, then call its a microsoft product.

THEN... they offer crappy support for things because they want to direct the world how computers and electronic components should go.

[swolt]

I didn't like it because of the interface. I use IE instead of FireFox because I like the interface better. They tried to make IE 7 look like FireFox. If I wanted that interface, I would just get FireFox. I'm going to say interface one more time.

[Mr. Ubiquity]

im not too thrilled about the system specs required for Vista.   Other than the fact they will force manufacturers to use the new vista for pcs when its released so they can make shit loads of money, i wish the concepts in vista would be made through optional service packs.

[Bishamonten]

I didn't like it because of the interface. I use IE instead of FireFox because I like the interface better. They tried to make IE 7 look like FireFox. If I wanted that interface, I would just get FireFox. I'm going to say interface one more time.

What interface issues do you have with firefox that are answered in IE?

[swolt]

I didn't like it because of the interface. I use IE instead of FireFox because I like the interface better. They tried to make IE 7 look like FireFox. If I wanted that interface, I would just get FireFox. I'm going to say interface one more time.

What interface issues do you have with firefox that are answered in IE?

It's not really something I can put my finger on. I get really, really annoyed using FireFox. I get a lot of "But FireFox is so much better why don't you use it?" (MOLLY) I have it on my machine and when I go to sites that might have spyware (for cracks, not porn) I use it. But for general surfing firefox annoys me and I like IE better.
And I have never once had security problems or spyware problems with IE.

I guess it has to go back to Netscape. I was a huge Netscape fan but when they pulled the BS trying to force Microsoft to bundle IE and Netscape with Windows I got pissed and switched to IE. FireFox is Netscape and they haven't really changed the format in 10 years.

[ReBurn]

im not too thrilled about the system specs required for Vista.   Other than the fact they will force manufacturers to use the new vista for pcs when its released so they can make shit loads of money, i wish the concepts in vista would be made through optional service packs.

The system specs with Vista are so high mostly because of the revamped display engine that it is incorporating.  You'll still be able to use the OS with a less-powerful system.  You just won't be able to use the glitzy new 3D display stuff.

[Listener]

Isn't Vista also going to incorporate heavy DRM-style copy protection or somesuch?

The next laptop I buy will be purchased right before Vista starts shipping on EVERY computer.  I LIKE XP the way it is, thank you very much (except for the asstacular security stuff of Service Pack 2).  I have no real need to upgrade to Vista -- I don't play a lot of hardcore games that require CPU power and graphics compatibility, and I don't do video editing.  The most power my computer ever uses is to play DVDs.

All that said, once IE7 comes out, I'll be happy, because my office requires IE only, and I can't WAIT to have tabs for all the crap I do at work.

[pumpkineye]

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,70732-0.html?tw=rss.index

[Mr. Ubiquity]

Isn't Vista also going to incorporate heavy DRM-style copy protection or somesuch?

The next laptop I buy will be purchased right before Vista starts shipping on EVERY computer.  I LIKE XP the way it is, thank you very much (except for the asstacular security stuff of Service Pack 2).  I have no real need to upgrade to Vista -- I don't play a lot of hardcore games that require CPU power and graphics compatibility, and I don't do video editing.  The most power my computer ever uses is to play DVDs.

All that said, once IE7 comes out, I'll be happy, because my office requires IE only, and I can't WAIT to have tabs for all the crap I do at work.

i agree.  XP works just fine. ive got programs set up so i have no real issues regardless where i go.   I wont get a machine even if it ships with vista...   wait until their first service pack.  they never have it right the first time around.

[ReBurn]

I think that the reasons to switch to Vista are going to be much more compelling than just some revamped graphics.  Based on what I've seen in the beta version the organization, filing and search capabilities of the new OS are astounding.  The filesystem core is based on SQL Server 2005 / .NET 2.0 technology that makes organizing and searching incredibly fast and easy.

Vista isn't an NT rehash like Windows 2000 and XP are.  Many of the core pieces of the OS have been rewritten from the ground-up. 

[Mr. Ubiquity]

I think that the reasons to switch to Vista are going to be much more compelling than just some revamped graphics.  Based on what I've seen in the beta version the organization, filing and search capabilities of the new OS are astounding.  The filesystem core is based on SQL Server 2005 / .NET 2.0 technology that makes organizing and searching incredibly fast and easy.

Vista isn't an NT rehash like Windows 2000 and XP are.  Many of the core pieces of the OS have been rewritten from the ground-up. 

you mean they bought a Mac G5, and then said how can we copy it to look just like them, but more like it came from a multi-billion dollar corp, rather than a billion dollar one?

[ReBurn]

Yeah, except that you get to have more than one button on your mouse.

[Mr. Ubiquity]

then theres your microsoft innovation.

[swolt]

maybe it's the couch medicine I'm drugged out on, but ReBurn and Mr. U's last comments made me fall out of my chair laughing.

[Alice]

maybe it's the couch medicine I'm drugged out on, but ReBurn and Mr. U's last comments made me fall out of my chair laughing.

I think it's chair medicine then.

[meredith]

I guess it has to go back to Netscape. I was a huge Netscape fan but when they pulled the BS trying to force Microsoft to bundle IE and Netscape with Windows I got pissed and switched to IE. FireFox is Netscape and they haven't really changed the format in 10 years.

Can you blame Netscape?  MS kind of fucked their sales over.

[swolt]

I guess it has to go back to Netscape. I was a huge Netscape fan but when they pulled the BS trying to force Microsoft to bundle IE and Netscape with Windows I got pissed and switched to IE. FireFox is Netscape and they haven't really changed the format in 10 years.

Can you blame Netscape?  MS kind of fucked their sales over.

yes, I do blame Netscape. At the time Netscape had a bunch of flaws. IE came out and a bunch of people switched because it was free and it worked much better. Netscape should have made a better product and people would have kept using it. Instead they tried to sue to force MS to bundle Netscape. I'm not a Microsoft fan in the least, but I thought it was very low on Netscapes part.

[meredith]

I guess it has to go back to Netscape. I was a huge Netscape fan but when they pulled the BS trying to force Microsoft to bundle IE and Netscape with Windows I got pissed and switched to IE. FireFox is Netscape and they haven't really changed the format in 10 years.

Can you blame Netscape?  MS kind of fucked their sales over.

yes, I do blame Netscape. At the time Netscape had a bunch of flaws. IE came out and a bunch of people switched because it was free and it worked much better. Netscape should have made a better product and people would have kept using it. Instead they tried to sue to force MS to bundle Netscape. I'm not a Microsoft fan in the least, but I thought it was very low on Netscapes part.

Netscape definitely dropped the ball with release 4 but it's hard to get users, who are notoriously lazy, to even look at it when IE is already on their system. 

But anyway, I'll assume you're not really holding a grudge against a piece of software that has a tiny code connection to the last real release of Netscape.  They kept some back-end functions mostly having to do with storing profiles.  Mozilla wrote their own layout engine, Gecko, and developed XUL to build the UI within Gecko.  For the Mozilla Suite, they built XPFE on top of XUL in order to make it visually similar to Netscape.  Firefox started back with Gecko and XUL and wrote their own interface from there.


http://community.wvu.edu/~ast002/ns1a.gif
Netscape 1.0N, 1994

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Netscape_Navigator_4.png
Netscape 4, June 1997

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mozilla_1.0.png
Mozilla 1.0, June 2002



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mozilla_Firefox_Interface.png
Firefox 1.5, December 2005



http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/no_ie_web_01.jpg
IE 1, 1995

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Internet_Explorer_4.png
IE 4, September 1997

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:XPSP2_popup.png
IE 6 SV1 from Windows XP SP 2, August 2004


I think they've both tossed it up a bit over 10 years, but IE has seen the least change since version 4.

You may not have problems with spyware on your system, because you know better than to browse questionable sites, but most users don't.  And I bet you have a spyware scanner installed too, just in case.  IE is the attack vector in 90% of spyware installs, why even risk it?  I look down on it like it's a piece of crap because after cleaning up systems that identify 2 or 3 thousand objects as spyware when they have been patched up to date, it is obvious to me that it is a piece of crap.

These systems had spyware scanners too, but you either have to pay (pay! to use my free web browser? psh!) to get one that watches things as they run (and take the performance hit) or remember to scan it periodically.  Which makes it like defragmenting, in that users will never remember to do it and it's a problem that shouldn't exist.

If you don't like Firefox, then use Opera.  Using IE just destroys your Geek Cred.

[swolt]

I shall remind you, as I am forced to do with my co-workers from time to time when they dog me for using IE, that I have been on TV and have a monthly spot on the radio as a computer expert.
I like IE. Why change to FireFox? Because IE lets in spyware? That doesn't effect me. I recommend FireFox to my customers for the security reasons, and I'm not saying it's a bad product, I just don't use it.

And yes, I do hold a grudge against a piece of software that broke my heart many years ago. I'm still healing. There is more than the MS issue. There was also ... and this is difficult for me ... HTML 4.0. Why oh why did you hurt me like that Netscape???
I'm only half joking about that. I wasted so many hours rewriting code because Netscape messed up HTMl 4.0. I don't care if the code is all different now, the interface is the same and when I see it I think "fucking HTML 4.0..."

Another reason I dislike FireFox is the fact that you can customize it. When I work on a customers machine I work very fast. I normally just use the keyboard because the mouse is too slow. To have things not where I am used to them slows me down. What I really really hate is downloading something and not knowing where it went. I rant about that all the time. I know you can change the download location, but I don't want to HAVE to change the download location.

[meredith]

I shall remind you, as I am forced to do with my co-workers from time to time when they dog me for using IE, that I have been on TV and have a monthly spot on the radio as a computer expert.
I like IE. Why change to FireFox? Because IE lets in spyware? That doesn't effect me. I recommend FireFox to my customers for the security reasons, and I'm not saying it's a bad product, I just don't use it.

And yes, I do hold a grudge against a piece of software that broke my heart many years ago. I'm still healing. There is more than the MS issue. There was also ... and this is difficult for me ... HTML 4.0. Why oh why did you hurt me like that Netscape???
I'm only half joking about that. I wasted so many hours rewriting code because Netscape messed up HTMl 4.0. I don't care if the code is all different now, the interface is the same and when I see it I think "fucking HTML 4.0..."

Another reason I dislike FireFox is the fact that you can customize it. When I work on a customers machine I work very fast. I normally just use the keyboard because the mouse is too slow. To have things not where I am used to them slows me down. What I really really hate is downloading something and not knowing where it went. I rant about that all the time. I know you can change the download location, but I don't want to HAVE to change the download location.

If you use the keyboard then why not Ctrl-J, Tab*3, Space or Ctrl-J, Context Key, F if you don't know where they set it to drop downloads?   How many people change it from the default of %PROFILE%\My Documents\My Downloads?

MS and Netscape both put out borked versions of HTML 4.0 before it was finalized.  The biggest bitch was that they were incompatible and didn't provide a simple way for one to degrade gracefully when presented with content written for the other.  Layer vs. iframe ring a bell?  If you want to complain about anything Netscape did to HTML, I think that should be blink.  These days, IE is almost always the "special case" when targetting web browsers.  There's always something completely fucked that MS did or some standard they just pretended wasn't there.  Transparent PNG images, anyone?  Because of IE, instead of the simple, standard <img src="image.png">, we have to use <img src="blank.gif" style="width: 100px; height: 100px; filter: progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.AlphaImageLoader(src='image.png', sizingMethod='scale')"> if the user has IE 5.5 or later.  Ah but if you only do that, you will only be compatible with IE.  You have to use JavaScript to detect the browser in use and re-write the DOM elements as needed for that browser.

I know that IE's issues may not effect you, and I believe I explained why it's still an issue.  You didn't acknowledge whether or not you have anti-spyware software on your system, but I'm betting you do.  The only reason you have it is because IE is also installed on that system.  You're also not dumb enough to pick up spyware through the other vector, which is applications that come bundled with it.  Whether or not you know how to use it safely, IE is still a gaping hole that's ready to accept whatever cyber-Bish may come along.