how historical fiction looks at racism

[Listener]

I recently finished reading Homeward Bound, the latest Harry Turtledove book in the Worldwar/Colonization saga.  The novels are historical fiction, taking place in three eras:  the 40s, the 60s, and the 2030s (or so).  They're very good, if a little too thick with details at times, and in Homeward Bound there's a funny little Matt Damon joke near the end.  I recommend them.

In the 40s and 60s, racism was real in America.  As such, the author is historically-accurate with his treatment of it.  However, when reading the books, all I can do is look at it and say "wow, people who believed in this were stupid.  How does being black/Jewish/Asian make you less of a person?"

In Homeward Bound, one of the main characters is black.  While speaking to one of the aliens on their (the aliens') home planet, they address issues of isolation in the context of race, and it seems too preachy to be really good writing.

Is this endemic in historical fiction?  Or is it just this guy?  I don't read a lot of historical fiction, but I get the feeling whenever I read period pieces that when racism is addressed, it's always given such a heavy-handed dose of preachiness, as if to say "okay, I'm a white author* and I'm going to use some distasteful words to keep in the historical context, but I'm going to go overboard to say I think racism is evil and wrong".  I understand why they might do it, but... I don't know, I'm not black... it just seems like we should be at a point where we can think rationally about the way things were without needing it hammered in our heads that that sort of thing is no longer allowed and was never the right way to go about it.

In other words, and no offense meant, am I the only one who thinks that sometimes authors overuse overkill?

* I've never read any historical fiction or period pieces by black authors. 

[swolt]

Some made for TV movie about Spartitcus came on the other day. During his speach trying to get the slaves to follow him he made this point that race didn't matter. Then he said if they won that all women would be treated equal to men.
I highly doubt he was for women's rights, it seemed preachy and like they were making him out to be all noble. Like in the Patriot, Mel Gibson didn't own any slaves, they were free men who happened to work the land for him. That could have happened, but it felt to me like they made that point to make him seem like a really good guy instead of showing how it really was in that time.

[dazie]

The Mel Gibson character was based on a real person, so I think the not having slaves thing was accurate in that case.

[swolt]

The Mel Gibson character was based on a real person, so I think the not having slaves thing was accurate in that case.

I have never looked this up myself, but when the movie came out a friend of mine said that part wasn't true, they just did that for the movie. But like I said, I don't know.

[dazie]

Hrm.  I will do some research.  My mom told me about it, so I'll ask her.

[ReBurn]

In regards to overkill, they don't call it fiction for nothing. 

[meredith]

matt damon? where's beefy when you need him?

[cnamon]

*Filling in for Beef, here is Dottie Lou

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[Dry then Catch]

Listener I have been reading the first two of that series on and off.  (whenever the used book store sells it for $2). 

Turtledove is the penultimate nerd as a technology sci-fi guy AND history buff.  If his writing is a little heavy handed (how about those adolescent level sex scenes?), cut him some slack he is already juggling two balls. 

[swolt]

Listener I have been reading the first two of that series on and off.  (whenever the used book store sells it for $2). 

Turtledove is the penultimate nerd as a technology sci-fi guy AND history buff.  If his writing is a little heavy handed (how about those adolescent level sex scenes?), cut him some slack he is already juggling two balls. 

reburn does that all day and manges to not be heavy handed

[Beefy]

Wait, what does Matt Damon have to do with it?

[Listener]

Wait, what does Matt Damon have to do with it?

In Homeward Bound there's a funny little Matt Damon joke near the end. 

[Jessie]

Wait, what does Matt Damon have to do with it?

In Homeward Bound there's a funny little Matt Damon joke near the end. 

Yeah, but why?

[Listener]

Wait, what does Matt Damon have to do with it?

In Homeward Bound there's a funny little Matt Damon joke near the end. 

Yeah, but why?

Two of the main characters left Earth in cold sleep in the 90s, and when they return to Earth in the 2030s they go to a movie he's in and can't remember his name.  It's just a little in-joke.  As Catchr probably has noticed in other books of this series, jokes like that tend to pop up.

[Dry then Catch]

Listener I have been reading the first two of that series on and off.  (whenever the used book store sells it for $2). 

Turtledove is the penultimate nerd as a technology sci-fi guy AND history buff.  If his writing is a little heavy handed (how about those adolescent level sex scenes?), cut him some slack he is already juggling two balls. 

reburn does that all day and manges to not be heavy handed

i LOLed.


  Here is an example of the sex set ups.
1)  A lonely misunderstood, yet ruggedly handsome sports player was thrown on a UFO with a Chinese women.  They are forced to make love.

2)  A misunderstood lonely , yet handsomely rugged minor sports player hangs out with this hot chick and they are forced to share a barn and somehow they get to what the Midwestern folks call "canoodling". 

NERD PORN should be the title of their books.

[Reverend Al Green]

Listener I have been reading the first two of that series on and off.  (whenever the used book store sells it for $2). 

Turtledove is the penultimate nerd as a technology sci-fi guy AND history buff.  If his writing is a little heavy handed (how about those adolescent level sex scenes?), cut him some slack he is already juggling two balls. 

reburn does that all day and manges to not be heavy handed

i LOLed.


  Here is an example of the sex set ups.
1)  A lonely misunderstood, yet ruggedly handsome sports player was thrown on a UFO with a Chinese women.  They are forced to make love.

2)  A misunderstood lonely , yet handsomely rugged minor sports player hangs out with this hot chick and they are forced to share a barn and somehow they get to what the Midwestern folks call "canoodling". 

NERD PORN should be the title of their books.

I think I've read those books!  Have you read the one about the shy, mostly chaste, socially awkward, yet ruggedly handsome guy who goes through a door into another dimension where he discovers a shy, mostly chaste, socially awkward, yet strikingly beautiful former secretary wandering aimlessly and they make sweet, sweet love in a field of space daisies after an appropriate amount of bonding? 

[Alice]

Okay.

There are aliens in a "historical" fiction book?  And your main point of contention is that the race part seems a bit preachy???  THERE ARE ALIENS.  In a "HISTORICAL" book. 

[Listener]

Okay.

There are aliens in a "historical" fiction book?  And your main point of contention is that the race part seems a bit preachy???  THERE ARE ALIENS.  In a "HISTORICAL" book. 

Okay, fine, "historical science fiction".

[Dry then Catch]

I think I've read those books!  Have you read the one about the shy, mostly chaste, socially awkward, yet ruggedly handsome guy who goes through a door into another dimension where he discovers a shy, mostly chaste, socially awkward, yet strikingly beautiful former secretary wandering aimlessly and they make sweet, sweet love in a field of space daisies after an appropriate amount of bonding? 

call me a chick, but I prefer stories of the lonely, widowed, strong hearted women with the older, rugged yet vaguely wounded man.  Is he ready to move on from his dead wife? 

[Beefy]

call me a chick

You're a chick.